GE 143: David Nevogt Shares the Strategies He Used to Grow Hubstaff’s Revenue to $72,000 Per Month (podcast) With David Nevogt

Dave Nevogt interview

Hello everyone, today’s guest is Dave Nevogt, co-founder of Hubstaff, a timekeeping SaaS that tracks time, progress, and projects for freelancers and virtual staff.

Today we’ll be talking about how Dave got his start in e-commerce, how his personal needs and pain points translated into the creation of Hubstaff, and how hard it is keeping track of a virtual team and what everyone is working on.

Episode highlights:

  • [3:51] – Internet businesses change rapidly, and even a profitable business can die down after a while.
  • [7:24] – Hubstaff is transparent about their revenue numbers, and you can find their income stats on their blog. The current MRR is around $84,000.
  • [9:04] – What sets Hubstaff apart is that you can see the work being done in real time. This helps lessen the time gap that is often there with remote teams.
  • [12:37] – Some may feel the screenshots are too invasive, but it is actually validation of the work and progress that is being done. Most founders are too busy to constantly check them.
  • [13:50] – Dave has an SEO background, and most of the Hubstaff growth has been generated from Google traffic and content marketing.
  • [19:39] – For content promotion their team spends about 65% of their time writing and 35% on promoting. Dave believes that really good content almost promotes itself.
  • [24:37] – A big struggle with growing the business is that without the organic traffic, they would lose their main traffic generation method. They need a repeatable sales cycle.

Download podcast transcript [PDF] here: David Nevogt Shares the Strategies He Used to Grow Hubstaff’s Revenue to $72,000 Per Month TRANSCRIPT

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Full Transcript of The Episode

Show transcript
David: One personal sign-up, and then he has like 5 workers. Those workers had multiple clients. The worker would like the software, and then the worker will basically tell another client about it, so we grew a lot through like that viral aspect, and so any way you can get people to have, like, an invite system or invite your team kind of a situation into your product is going to increase that viral growth.

Voiceover: Do you want to impact the world and still turn a profit? Then, you're in the right place. Welcome to Growth Everywhere. This is the show where you'll find real conversations with real entrepreneurs. They'll share everything from their biggest struggle to the exact strategy they use on a daily basis. If you're ready for a value-packed interview, listen on. Here's your host, Eric Siu.

Eric: Hey, everyone. Just a quick heads-up that we're giving away a eBook called "29 Growth Hacking Quick Wins." We co-authored this book with Mattan Griffel of One Month, and we'll give you a solid base on where you can create growth ideas from. All you need to do is text "Quick Tips" to 33444. That's the word "quick," Q-U-I-C-K, and "tips," T-I-P-S as in sugar to 33444 and you get instant access.

All right, everybody. Today, we have David Nevogt who's the co-founder of Hubstaff, which is a time-tracking software, which screen shots your team members and also tracks their activity levels as well. David, how is it going today?

David: Good. Thank you very much for having me.

Eric: Yeah. Thanks for being here. Why don't you tell us a little bit about who you are and what you do?


[00:02:00] Yeah, so I have been running internet companies now for about 12, 13 years. Right out of college, I got started. This is my third company that I've done, third fairly large growth company. I have some experience in e-commerce. I've had some experience in service businesses, and this is the third, and really, this ... Hubstaff exists from a personal experience standpoint. It's built for the pains that I've dealt with in my past companies.

Eric: Okay. Tell us about those pains.

David: Yeah. Really, it just comes from a standpoint of like not having a lot of management experience and not having the ability to understand what everyone on my team is doing and having projects overrun their budgets, and having overrun time, and just feeling like as the entrepreneur, as the founder of the company, feeling like you're the only one really trying to push things forward. I'm sure that a lot of people have had that experience.

Eric: Got it. Okay. It makes sense. Tell us about your other 2 ventures before this.

David: Yeah, so I had a golf e-commerce business. That's where I got my start back in like 2003 to 2004. I started that, and it just exploded like right place, right time kind of thing. I started with a book, and we did ... We end up doing like 25 DVDs. I worked with 3

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different golf pros, a few in Hilton Head, a few in Phoenix, and so that company just grew up from zero to like ... I think it was like 1-point ... I don't know, 1.7 in its peak, and it was just like ... It's very profitable, information products, so I was just selling a lot of DVDs, training aids, and books, all based on golf instruction, so that was the first one. Then, I had an SEO services company which is pretty ... like an SEO agency just basically selling a lot of content. We sold a lot of content and advice, and we had a small software program. Yeah. That's what I've done in the past.

Eric: Okay. Why did you decide to get out of the golf business? It sounds like cash flows were pretty good there.

David: [00:04:00] Both of those businesses died down. One of the things I've learned over these businesses, some of them have a pretty short shelf life even if things seem to be going great. It's so easy for competitors to come in. Like in the golf business, for example, like I said, right place, right time. I was able to get ... At one point, I was getting AdWords clicks for like 5 cents apiece. Now, they're ... If you're going to bid on the term "golf instruction," or "golf tips," or whatever, you're looking at probably $1.25 to bid.

Eric: Wow.

David: It's like ... I don't know the math on that, but not only that, but the conversion rates also drop. Back in 2005, my demographics was mostly like male like 50-plus years old, and I was the one emailing them. It was all brand new, so they thought that somebody was actually emailing them, not an auto-responder, and so the conversion rates were very high. The open rates were very high. Those very good times back then, and so in that business, we just battle basically a lot of competitors coming in with a lot more money that we had. By that, I mean like big names like Golf Illustrated started their own DVD program.

A lot of the popular big name golf pros, they actually teach the [PJ2R 00:05:14] players. They started their own programs. They had big money behind them. They have big agencies behind them with a lot of money that potentially they have raised or whatever. All that goes into ad prices, and it just adds competitors to the marketplace and just ... consumers got ... I wouldn't say smarter, I guess, but they understood there were more choices on the market. Anyway, a lot of that stuff put together just led to the kind of demise of that business. Basically, we couldn't advertise profitably anymore, and so we couldn't get new blood in the business, so it still lasts us a while.

Eric: How long was a while?

David: I started in 2003, and I pretty much stopped paying attention to it in 2011.

Eric: Okay, so quite a while, 8 years.

[00:06:00] David:

Yeah. Yeah, I ran it for quite some time. Yeah, and it was over a million almost all those years, so it was a good business for sure, but it just ... Things run their course, you

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Eric: Right.

David: The SEO business, the thing with that is just all kinds of ... We serviced mostly other agencies, and those agencies, as they got pressure from their clients about getting the rankings, and as SEO changed, and Google changed their ... what they like to see, our business got hit by basically a lot of those companies going out of business, so we went through a period of time where we were like decreasing just because our clients were decreasing, so that's interesting.

Eric: The golf business, at its peak, it did 1.7 in a year? What about the SEO business?

David: I think it was doing like 2.4.

Eric: Two-point-four? Wow, okay. It's good money. Yeah, it's interesting. We get a lot of people that look to us for ... I have an agency. They look for SEO all the time, and it's not something we fulfill, so the demand is clearly still there.

David: Yeah. It's one of those things where it's like it costs so much more money now to get ...

Eric: Yeah, I hear you. Let's talk about Hubstaff then. Let's talk a little bit about ... I guess let's talk about some numbers. What numbers can you share on the business right now?

David: Yeah. We are 100% ... I guess not 100%, but close in terms of being open and transparent. We've got a blog where we share basically how ... the strategies we're using to grow, so in terms of numbers, right now, we're at $72,000 monthly recurring.

Eric: Okay.


[00:08:00] Now, we've got a small staffing side of the business where we basically match you with programmers and mostly programming, WordPress, Ruby on Rails, that kind of stuff, so we do a little bit of that. I think total, we're at like 84, something like that monthly. Yeah. We're happy with that. It's growing right now pretty much at double digits. We went through a phase in the past, a few months here where we've been at like 7% month over month, but pretty much double digit month over month, and so we're happy with what it's doing so far.

We started it ... We took our first paying customer in like ... I think it was the end of 2013, so it's been like 2-1/2 years, a little over 2-1/2 years and we're where we are, so we're ... Growth has been linear I think. Through some of the interviews I've done, I've got to people on the phone, and from what they taught me, growth typically in the [SAT 00:08:28] industry is like linear progression.

Eric: Right. You said you guys are doing $84K a month, so about a million dollar annual run rate. Does that sounds about right?

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David: Yeah. Like I said, it's just ... part of that is not like recurring, so we have 72 recurring based on the software, have some staffing, so we have ...

Eric: Okay. I guess let's talk about Hubstaff because it's interesting. I actually just signed up for the software a couple weeks before we got in touch to get on this podcast. What's different about Hubstaff versus other time-tracking tools out there?

David: The other time-tracking tools out there, I ... We built this in the first place, like I said, because we felt like remote business was on the rise. I was never comfortable with my employees just being like, "Okay, Dave. You know I work 8 hours day." Like if they were ... Let's say they were over in the Ukraine, or Romania, or the Philippines, wherever like the other time-tracking tools like a lot of them just have like a timesheet, still like a timesheets tool, and it's like, "Okay, just enter your time," or they could be a little more advanced where they have like a natural desktop add, and they can track to a project, but still, it's like there's no validation of the work being done.

[00:10:00] With Hubstaff, you can see the work unfold like before your eyes, so you can see like ... I give the example a lot like if you have a design being done like you guys have a log-in and you can see the work being done in real-time, so you don't have to actually like email that contractor and ask for the design update, and then wait like a day for him to email you back, and then ... because of time zone issues and everything else, so it's really built for teams that are in different time zones, working at different times, so it really lessens the gap in the communication and makes remote teams run a lot more smoothly.

Eric: Yeah. That makes total sense. What I was struggling with because we have a distributed team is sometimes, like you mentioned, if you're hiring virtual assistants whether they're from Honduras, Philippines, or whatever, or somebody who's just in New York or something, it's helpful to know what's going on, especially when you haven't established that, that relationship where the trust is just there, you know?

David: Right.

Eric: That's why I signed up for it in the first place. Now, I think some of the resistance initially ... my resistance at least was, "This might be a little too Big-Brother-y." What's your take on that?

David: Yeah. First of all, there is lots of different use cases for Hubstaff, the software that we have, but like the take on the Big Brother stuff ... It's like I think the days of like for example, let's say you have a company ... like a little bit upmarket like let's say that you are a general ... or like a marketing manager and you've outsourced to a team. They want you. You're going to hire 10 people over in, like I said, the Ukraine or something like that to do a full new front-end on a website or something like that, right?

The days of being like, "Okay, so we're just going to charge per person. They're going to work full-time. You're just going to trust us that they're working full-time for you, and at the end of the month, we're just going to build you $48,000 for whatever, 4,000 times ...

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$4,800 a month per person or whatever," and that's going to be your rate like that ... The days of that I think are just like over. I think they're coming to an end, and so my thing is like my team ... at least my team that I've hired, the people that ... the team that I've assembled, they don't mind the screenshots.

[00:12:00] I don't really even look at the screenshots to be honest. It's there if I need it, but I might check like once every 2 weeks on a specific thing. Generally, like I said before, to see things unfold. I'm not the type that spends my time going through the screenshots. I just have more important things that I got to get done. Yeah. I think they use it ... my team uses it as actually proof that they're doing a good job and that their job is secure because as a remote worker, you don't have a lot of things that ... Sometimes, it's hard to prove your value, and with Hubstaff, you can see that value just like, yeah, immediately like I can tell my team is great.

Eric: It makes sense. Yeah, and you can tell when ... For me, looking at HubSpot, there's ... HubSpot, Hubstaff.

David: Yeah.

Eric: When you look at it ... For me, I look at the dashboard. You can compare your team. You look at the activity levels and you look at the screen shots. If everybody is above 80% activity levels and somebody is hovering around 50%, you might notice something is wrong right off the bat, so I ... to me, personally, that's helpful. Like you said, I'm not going to look at the screenshots all the time. Maybe every ... For me, maybe every month or so.

David: Yeah, exactly.

Eric: How did you guys go about acquiring, let's just say, your first 100 customers?


[00:14:00] Yeah. Our growth really has occurred ... I do have a background in SEO, so that helps, but Google has been ... A lot of people say, "I hate Google." Like I love Google because Google is where we acquire almost all of our customers in one way, one shape, form, or another like we do not have a sales team. We've experimented with a sales team or a sales person I should say, but we don't have a sales team. For us, the math doesn't seem to make sense. We charge like $5 a user. We have a $10 user plan as well if you want the extra stuff like [Applicate 00:13:44]. We also monitor applications. We monitor websites, so we have budgets. There's a lot of things in our premium plan, automatic payroll, so there's a lot of things that you get extra for an extra fee, but in general, people find us on Google, and that's still the case.

We did a small advertising campaign to start off with when we first started back in 2012, 2013. We still advertise like right now. I think last month, we spent about $5,000 in advertising. It's not even directly profitable currently, but we are seeing good growth, and we're doing things like Facebook-like campaigns. Make a long story short I guess. Our first 100 users were pretty much from Google. We do get a lot of growth from like word of mouth as well, but Google pretty much is the main thing.

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Eric: Okay. When you say ... You guys did SEO. What did you guys do exactly?

David: Like most of it has to do with content, content marketing, writing really good informative posts on various different topics. We do content on a lot of remote team-type topics, so like when somebody is entering in a keyword for us. It's typically like "remote team software," "remote teamwork software," "remote monitoring software," things like that, "remote time-tracking." All those keywords, we really hammer on, and so when we talk about SEO for us, really, it's about content.

We don't do any kind of link building. We do like the ... I guess the very, very low-hanging stuff like we will get included on directories like GetApp, and Capterra, and things like that, but for the most part, we just put out lots of good content, and that content, the links build naturally. Obviously, we do a little bit of social stuff, but yeah. For us, it's a matter of just putting out the content and becoming an authority in the space that you're in, and the rankings happen naturally, you know?

Eric: Okay. Can you walk me through what you guys are doing in terms of content?

David: Yeah.

[00:16:00] Eric:

What does a typical post looks like exactly, and how much are you guys writing per week and things like that?

David: Yeah, sure. Right now, we published about 3 to 5 posts a week, so that's the first thing in terms of frequency. We put anywhere from about $75 to like $275 depending on how it's written and what it takes to write it into a budget, so that includes like a blog header, the images, that kind of thing. We have a stock photo account that we use sparingly. We don't use it very much. We have custom images done. We've got a team that does the images. I've got like 3 or 4 designers that do the images, and then in terms of the writing, I have a content editor. I've got actually a content editor. I've got a writer, and then we have like 4 or 5 other writers to actually ... will give us like a first draft.

I produce content. I produce the growth content, so like how we're growing the company. Sometimes, I have help with having that content written, and what I'll do is I'll do ... I typically do like an outline. That outline is probably about 700, 800 words, so it's a big outline, very advanced, and then basically, what I'll do is do a screen-share video going through the outline, so that the writer can tell my tone of voice and where I want emphasis and focus, and lots of times, I'll expand. It really helps them tell my story.

If you hear about like ... lots of times, when they ... If you talk to an author of a book, lots of times, they're not the ones actually writing the words. It's their story, it's their ideas, but they're not the ones actually writing the words because it's not what their gift is. Writing, I can do ... I can write well, but man, it takes me like 10 hours to produce one of those posts, and so I got it down through this process of making the videos, and the outline, I get it down to about an hour and a half, 2 hours per post, and so I can produce

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[00:18:00] a lot more content. We roundup posts. We do SEO-generated posts like we'll do a post on the top 5 remote work software and the competition, that kind of thing.

Eric: What does "SEO-generate posts" mean?

David: That just means that like I'm writing based on a certain keyword, so when you talk about the growth posts, I don't do any of that based on keyword. I do that from the heart. You know what I'm saying? When we talk ... or based on like a story, the real story of what's going on. When we talk about an SEO post, that is with the keyword in mind, and so you're writing the content with that keyword in mind from the start. That's all that means.

No matter what kind of post we're doing ... They range between like 1,200 and 3,000 words, so you're talking about long, in-depth content, and the other thing is it's set up right, so it's all set up with the right on-page stuff. It's all set up. All the images are tagged, and so I've developed ... like one of my strengths is like processes and developing like a step-by-step process for getting things done. We got this thing down to a science now, and so it's all being set up right, and it's all like ... I just taught my team how to do that through a process of Google Docs, and videos, things like that.

Eric: Okay. Now, you talked about how ... The content right now is ... It's getting you guys a good amount of links. You guys are getting good rankings from it, good traffic from it. Now, obviously, when you're starting out, those links aren't going to come automatically. Now, how are you guys going about ... What is the content promotion process looks like because a lot of people forget about that?


[00:20:00] Yeah. I've heard a lot of people say, "Hey, you got to spend 80% of your time on promotion, and then 20%, or 50-50, or whatever." I would say in our team, we probably spend more like 65% writing and 35% promoting, so we need to work on that aspect of it. The thing is that ... Here's what I would say I guess. What I've learned is that the better your content is, if you write really good content, it's very easy to promote. It's almost like just being like, "Hey, check this out." People will be like, "Yeah, that's really awesome." You know what I mean?

If you write really great stuff, it promotes itself the most. I've got a few posts that just like ... They've been getting traffic for years now because it's just topics that resonated really well with the startup community or whatever. But then, if you write a crappy post or it's a post on like the top 5 whatever, those posts are very hard to promote if that makes any sense, so those do not get any natural traction. What we do is, number one, we promote. We work on the promotions [rather only 00:20:30] of the posts that are going to promote themselves anyway if that makes sense, so you pick your battles.

Then, after that, we put it out on Reddit. We put it on ... We used to do a lot on Hacker News. What we found is that didn't actually convert at all for us, so we stopped doing that. We post stuff on Inbound. We post stuff on Growth Hackers. We post stuff on ... We turn things into an infographic, and we'll put that on Imager. We'll put it on Visually. We'll make SlideShare presentations. We have made ... We've experimented with videos

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on YouTube, but all that comes from the host first and foremost, the blog content, and then it's just a matter of recycling that content into other formats, and then posting that format ... posting that content on the outlet that it's meant for.

Eric: Yeah. It sounds like you guys are doing a lot when it comes to content. I guess the question would be, you guys have ... up till now, how much monthly visitors are you guys currently driving from the blog right now?


[00:22:00] Yeah. Our blog right now, I think it's around 40,000 a month, and we drive I think ... I wish I had this number out to help my head, but I think last month, we drove about a hundred trials from the blog, so that was pretty good. We had to put that in perspective. We had 1,500 trials are up last month, so we got about a little less than 10% from the blog. First-time visitors to the blog. Meaning, like your first touch with us is on the blog or a blog post, then you come to the site and sign up.

Eric: Interesting. Okay. How much does a free trial worth for you guys?

David: I don't have that stat. I don't have that. It's in our ... I guess I could figure it out. We do about ... so every month, we do about ... We're doing about 5,000, 4,400, 5,000, between that in terms of net new MRR. Your question is a little complex because it takes ... You got to take into account turn, everything else, but what I can say for sure is that we get about like 1,400, 1,500 trials start of the month. That's up pretty drastically in the past like 2 months because we are down like 1,100 just a few months ago, and then we get about 200 paying clients per month, so we're converting ... Last month, we got like ... I think like 220 or something like that, so we're converting at like ...

Eric: About 13%?

David: Yeah. I mean, between 13% and 17%.

Eric: Okay, great. Now, so you mentioned the blog was a big piece of it, so you guys are getting a hundred sign-ups from the blog. Now, where are the other ... You had 1,500, right? Where are the other 1,400 coming from?


[00:24:00] A lot of word of mouth. They're coming directly to our site, so all the keywords that we [ranked forth 00:23:17] directly to our site, so like "time-tracking with screenshots" for example. Remote team like ... A lot of stuff just goes directly to our site as well, so a lot of that. It's Google as well. We run ads on Capterra. We run ads on GetApp, but like over 50% of it is just viral in nature. You said you heard [Robbie Osborne 00:23:37] on a podcast. We have a podcast now of our own that we're doing, but like a lot of it is viral because like ... and that's one thing that's a big ... I think a big lesson for anybody listening is like out of all these companies that I've run in the past, one of the most exciting parts about Hubstaff is that people come to us without like a lot of outreach from us, so we're not doing a whole lot of out person like it's not like [pointing 00:24:01]. You know what I'm saying?

It's like they're coming to us because it's a needed service and because we have a good

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product and word of mouth, and so what happens is like one personal sign-up, and then he has like 5 workers. Those workers had multiple clients, and the worker would like the software, and then the worker will basically tell another client about it, so we grow a lot through like that viral aspect, and so any way you can get people to have like an invite system or invite your team kind of a situation into your product is going to increase that viral growth.

Eric: It makes sense. All right. We talked a lot about ... We've went a little granular. We zoomed in a little bit. I want to zoom out now. Tell us about one big struggle you faced while growing the business.

David: My biggest struggle right now is that we don't have a repeatable sales cycle. If you took away Google ... We talked a lot about Google and that kind of thing. If you took that away, or if all of our rankings went away one day, or whatever like our business would be hurting quite a bit, and we don't have like a way to like reach out to say, "Hey, Eric. You should check out Hubstaff." I'm sure you get a lot of those emails, that kind of thing, and I'm sure that works for some businesses, but it hasn't worked for us based on a lot of that space on the math and how much we charge I think, but yeah. We don't have a repeatable sales cycle or we don't ... our ads, like I said, are not profitable right now, so the repeatable sales cycle is I think a problem of ours currently.

Eric: It makes sense. What are you guys doing to address that?

David: Nothing, man. We've accepted that ... We've accepted even though that's a challenge, we have other really positive things, and so we're focusing on the things that do work. You see what I'm saying?

Eric: Hmm (affirmative).


[00:26:00] Like I've read in a lot of books, even older books, and management books, and things like that, it's like lots of times, your best way forward is to focus on the positive, so they say like when you have like a team member, even like ... working for you. Like they can have a lot of negative traits, but that's not your job to worry about the negative. Your job is to worry about the positive and highlight that positive because he's generally or she is generally strong at one very specific thing, and your job is to bring that out. You know what I'm saying? We also have positive things that we know are working for us, and so what we're doing instead is we're doubling down on the things that are working.

Eric: Yeah. I 100% agree. I think it's the curse of a lot of startups nowadays is trying to do too many things at once. I think I mentioned it on a few podcasts where you just have to [100X down 00:26:35] on whatever is working. That's what's going on, so cool. All right. How old are you right now?

David: I'm 36.

Eric: Thirty-six? Okay. What's one piece of advice you can give to your 25-year-old self?

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David: The one thing I think is to create something, and I guess what I mean by that is like ... A lot of people don't have things in their name. Whether it could be a blog in your name, it could be a business that you've started, it could be a product, it could be a lot of things, but like for me, I've made the biggest wins and progressions in my life when I have been able to go out and create something that it doesn't really matter so much if it exists in the marketplace currently. It's just a matter of like it gives me something to sell. Do you know what I'm saying?

Eric: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

David: So many people don't have anything to sell, and so they can't go off on their own and do their own thing.

Eric: Interesting. Okay, so your advice would be to start sooner in a sense?

David: To create something. To create something that's yours, that you have profits on, that you have profit margins on. You know what I'm saying?

Eric: Okay, great. What's one productivity hack you can share with everyone?

David: [00:28:00] To look at yourself as a project manager versus a doer. What I do is I got a team of people, but like I look at myself as like I'm managing their work, not ... I'm not doing the work myself, and so for me, at the end of the day, like I know all these different ... I've got like ... It's amazing like I've got like 50 different things moving forward at the same time. I was stuck 2 years ago because I was trying to do it all, and these people, they ... Yes. They do cost money, but like I feel like a lot of people ... a lot of entrepreneurs are still trying to really do overthink themselves as well as hire the team, but then they're micromanaging everything the team does, and it just gets stressful. You know what I'm saying?

As a project manager, you got to look at like we've got our business. It's really defined. Get like end goals, and so I can track really easily the progress of each of these goals, and I know that my tea is working on the right stuff, so a lot of these project management scales just at their ground level like if you can implement those things, I think your productivity will feel really spiked, you know?

Eric: Great. I love it. Now, what's one must-read book you'd recommend to everyone?

David: I'm reading it right now. It's really interesting. It's a book called "Scale," David Finkel. It's actually an amazing book.

Eric: I think I've heard of it. I haven't picked that up on the ... but we'll drop that in the show note for sure. It sounds like a really interesting one. Is it all about growth? What is it about?

David: It's like I resonated with it a lot because it's about ... It's like management, growing a company, but it comes at you from perspective of these guys are real like they've done

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it. It would be like talking to a dude that has started several $15,000,000, $20,000,000 companies like giving you everything he knows on what he has done to grow his companies.

Eric: Interesting.

David: It's not like really internet-driven or like startup. It's not for like that type of company like specifically. It's for any company.

Eric: Okay, cool. We'll drop that in the show notes. It sounds like an interesting one that I'll probably grab after this, but David, this has been great. What's the best way for people to find you online?

David: [00:30:00] Yeah, so just [email protected] is my email. Dnevogt, N-E-V-O-G-T, is my Twitter. I write the stuff on my blog. It's I got a lot of interesting stuff there that we've talked about today and a lot more regarding hiring and finding people to work for you, things like that.

Eric: Yeah, that's fantastic. David, this has been great. Everyone, check out Hubstaff. I am loving it so far. I've been using it for a couple of weeks. Again, thanks again, David.

David: All right. Thank you.

Eric: Hey, everyone. Just a quick heads-up that we're giving away a eBook called "29 Growth Hacking Quick Wins." We co-authored this book with Mattan Griffel of One Month, and we'll give you a solid base on where you can create growth ideas from. All you need to do is text "Quick Tips" to 33444. That's the word "quick," Q-U-I-C-K, and "tips," T-I-P-S as in sugar to 33444 and you get instant access.

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