Hey everyone, today I share the mic with Scott Oldford, founder of LeadCraft and master marketer whose expertise is in Internet marketing.
Tune in to hear Scott share his initial struggles as an entrepreneur when he was $726,000 in debt, his three-tiered marketing funnel which has proven very successful, the benefits of using messenger bots, and the value of being authentic in your business.
Download podcast transcript [PDF] here: How Scott Oldford Went from $726K in Debt to Building a Business that Generates $10M in Revenue TRANSCRIPT
Time-Stamped Show Notes:
- 00:38 – Please leave us a review and subscribe to the Growth Everywhere Podcast
- 00:58 – Eric introduces Scott Oldford
- 00:35 – Started programming at the age of 10, and then moved onto internet marketing
- 02:10 – Ended up with a debt of $726,000 as he tried his hand at entrepreneurship
- 02:42 – Turned a corner and revenues have shot up from half a million in 2015 to 8-10 million in 2017
- 03:05 – Helps entrepreneurs making between $60,000 and half a million scale up to seven figures and beyond
- 03:38 – Sells a lead generation product, LeadCraft, apart from making messenger bots
- 04:38 – Overly optimistic as a 18 year old, Scott admits that is what led him to becoming neck deep in debt
- 05:50 – Overleveraged himself by investing in multiple and varied businesses like mobile tech, SaaS and fitness supplements
- 07:10 – Attempted to start a platform for car advertising; had to sell off to another ad agency due to colossal losses
- 08:22 – Terms this as the worst period of his life; resorted to drinking heavily to deal with this difficult period
- 09:40 – Finally turned a corner in 2014 as revenues hit $1 million; however, hated running his agency as he was reporting to someone else
- 10:22 – Sold everything he had and moved to Toronto with no business plan and just $30,000 in the bank
- 10:42 – Started LeadCraft with a team of people that he really enjoyed being with
- 12:37 – The origins of Leadcraft
- 12:37 – Realizing that his expertise was internet marketing, Scott decided to start teaching this topic
- 13:22 – 21 people agreed to pay $1,100 dollars each to learn the nuances of internet marketing
- 13:45 – Made over a hundred grand thanks to the publicity he got from being interviewed on EOFire
- 14:17 – On the back of his initial success, launched LeadCraft which helps businesses with a tight budget implement effective lead generation
- 14:37 – Realized that the traditional ad to webinar funnel was resulting in high CPC’s; created a three-tiered marketing funnel to aid in higher conversions
- 16:00 – Current internet marketing strategies are not tailored to people who have smaller budgets
- 16:37 – LeadCraft has three different versions—from the basic $1K version to the premium $12K version, which comes with a wide range of support and services
- 17:42 – Has a closing rate of more than 80% due to a thorough prequalification process
- 18:00 – Under the traditional process 20% of the people who view the webinar opt for a strategy call, and out of these, only 20% convert
- 19:00 – Starts off the marketing funnel with a guide which is followed by a webinar or VSL depending on the engagement rate; finally, prospects fill out a strategy form which is manually reviewed
- 20:31 – Coming out with a 90-day, $10k sales accelerator for people who already have an existing marketing funnel
- 21:50 – Four things that makes Scott really happy: freedom, evolution, innovation and creation
- 22:01 – Fails at 90% of the things that he attempts; ensures that he makes small bets so that he can take these failures in stride and move on
- 23:38 – Attempts to take apart something that is working and make it better; continuous iteration is a must for improvement
- 24:08 – After continuously teaching his course for two and a half years, Scott has become way better than what he originally was
- 27:08 – Leveraging Facebook to win clients
- 28:20 – Writes unfiltered content on whatever he feels like; whatever gets traction goes to his content team and finally the distribution channel
- 28:50 – Considers Facebook as a creative platform to test ideas and concepts
- 30:21 – Makes six figures a month due to his Facebook feed
- 31:20 – Using messenger bots to further engagement and push up sales
- 32:10 – Started making bots in March and has already seen revenue grow to half a million
- 32:49 – Used a bot to qualify people; 1,100 leads generated $400,000 in booked revenues
- 33:14 – Has witnessed 80-90% open rates and 30-50% click-through rates
- 33:29 – A recent messenger blast resulted in $20,000 in revenue in just 24 hours
- 33:55 – More people are signing up via bots than emails
- 36:10 – People love conversations and instantaneous replies
- 37:52 – Scott shares how micro-dosing has completely changed his life
- 38:55 – Kills all his filters and helps him be his authentic self
- 39:33 – Sees the world as a beautiful place and wants to help make it better
- 41:09 – Proud of the fact that he has been able to build a successful company being exactly who he is
- 42:39 – What’s one new tool that you’ve added in the last year that’s added a lot of value? Plans his day so that all his tasks are equally allocated to the four things he loves the most: freedom, evolution, innovation and creation
- 44:57 – What’s one must-read book you recommend to everyone? – Freak Show: Presenting Human Oddities for Amusement and Profit and The Millionaire Fastlane: Crack the Code to Wealth and Live Rich for a Lifetime
- 46:02 – Connect with Scott via Facebook
- 46:34 – Entrepreneurship and success comes with having patience, determination and being obsessed with the process versus the result
- 46:56 – End of today’s episode
- 47:02 – Head out to our website to access today’s show notes
- 47:08 – Please leave us a review and subscribe to the Growth Everywhere Podcast
3 Key Points:
- Concentrate on implementing a thorough PREQUALIFICATION process which will drive up your closing rates; consider adopting a three-tiered marketing approach and using chatbots to facilitate this.
- Freedom, evolution, innovation and creation are the KEYS to attaining success in business.
- Try to be your own authentic self in your work and/or business.
Resources From This Interview:
- Scott Oldford website
- EOFire interview
- Must-read books:
- Scott Oldford on LinkedIn
- Scott Oldford on Facebook
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Disclaimer: As with any digital marketing campaign, your individual results may vary.
Full Transcript of The Episode
Eric Siu: How much money did you have to invest?
Scott Oldford: I won't say specifically on how much money it is but it's not a small amount of money. So what I was essentially doing was I had friends of mine that were putting their kind of sweat equity into it and then I would fuel it with some cash and some of it went well, some of it didn't go well. One of the things that did go well, I'm not sure if you're familiar with [inaudible 00:06:38], it's like a SaaS for websites [inaudible 00:06:40].
Eric Siu: Yeah.
Scott Oldford: Yeah, so myself and James, we were the original co-founders of that, so that was actually originally my idea way, way back when. And we partnered together and that was one of the things that I did invest in and I sold out of it about, I guess, three years or four years ago now. So a lot of things like that. But the problem was, I didn't have focus and because I didn't have focus and I was over leveraged, I kind of came to a complete stop when I had a lot of my money into this one company where our idea was essentially to put advertising on cars, because I was like, "Okay, at some point we're going to have cars that drive themselves and let's create an advertising platform around this that would allow advertising on just regular cars." And so I had about 13, 14 people hired full-time, some things happened with my business partner, some things happened with the market, and basically came to the the fact that this wasn't going to work.
I never ever fired anyone really before, like this was an in-person team and so instead of firing everybody when I realized that, which is what I really should've done, I just started bleeding like 100 grand a month and I was like, "Okay, I'm going to turn this into an agency," because I did the agency thing before. But I couldn't get the agency profitable fast enough so fast forward another 15, 16 months and that's like have bled a ton of money, so I basically sold that to another agency, which, honestly, was just publicly the quote unquote version of, "Yeah, I sold it," but in reality is like, "Yeah, I'm going to go bankrupt, so let's [crosstalk 00:08:12]."
Eric Siu: I hear that so much from agency people.
Scott Oldford: Oh, yeah, it's like, "Oh, yeah, I sold it." It's like, "No, dude, you're broke as shit and you didn't have a choice." So that's basically what I did. I went into a partnership on that, that was the worst 11 months of my life. I can't say I was ... I have friends of mine that kind of suffered with depression and that type of thing, or I should say former friends of mine, and I saw some of them go through that, I can't say I was depressed. I'll just say that it was the worst place in my ... I have a hard time waking up, 10:00 am in the morning, I used to work from like 10:00 to 4:00, which is like not me. I love working. And I'd go home and basically just get drunk and high and just trying to suppress the fact that I was just living in this reality that I hated. And I was in a ton of debt so I was trapped. It was like, "Okay, I'm trapped here." It's like, "What am I going to do?"
And then one day I was just like, "I'm having enough of this. If I had to go and live at my parent's, in my old bedroom, I'll have to do it." And then I basically ... That was June 2013 and so that was kind of, I guess, the ... If it was the origin story, I was like, "Okay, let's change this. Let's change up my life. Let's change up the things. Let's take a real hard look at this Scott [inaudible 00:09:24], this Scott operating system, and look at all the things that are screwed up." And look at the fact that I was really selfish and I was really egotistical and I was really all these different types of things. My character really wasn't great. And then I guess from there, I went out and just hustled. We did almost a million dollars in our agency in 2014. So I went out, quit that agency, I was like, "Okay, I learn a lot ... " And a digital only agency. So we did a million in our first year, or just about a million, it was just a little bit off of a million in the first year. But then the problem was it was 2014, I was like, "Man, I hate agencies." Can I swear on this? Is it cool if I swear on the-
Eric Siu: Yeah, go for it, dude.
Scott Oldford: So, my problem was, I didn't want to be someone's fucking bitch, and that's what an agency is, right? And so from that end, that was the end of 2014, I was just like, "Man, I don't want to do this." So it was the beginning of 2016 and, again, I'm pretty open with this, I ended up doing LSD for the very first time. So acid, like in very early 2016. I woke up the next morning and within two weeks, I fired everyone at my agency, closed my agency down, sold everything I had, and moved from back in Newfoundland, which is like the eastern of Canada, to Toronto, with no idea what I was going to do with a business model, nothing. All I knew I had like $35-, $40,000 in the bank.
So, I basically, after starting over again in June 2013, I was just like, "I don't care if I'm making money. I don't give a shit if I'm making money." We had like a 20% profit margin, I was just like, "I'm not willing to do this and I'm not willing to peak and I'm not willing to be someone's bitch," and that's essentially what started what is today LeadCraft from that moment of just being like, "Screw it. In some way I'm going to let what I enjoy and who I enjoy being around dictate my business." Which is probably the worst advice I could ever give to anybody else. And I guess my only unfair advantage is the fact that I'd been an entrepreneur my entire life and I have been in a lot of business and I've had a lot of successes, had a lot of failures, and I think it was just like waking up in the morning and being like, "You know what? I have enough confidence to know it's going to be okay."
Eric Siu: Love it. So, you took the LSD, you became Scott Jobs for a little bit and then you just started to make the move, I love it, man. And when you were doing the agency, you said it was doing a little less than a million, how many employees did you have?
Scott Oldford: They were all contractors but one, two, three, four, like five, maybe six at the maximum.
Eric Siu: Got it, okay. Great. Okay, so everything goes into LeadCraft, so LeadCraft, what is it exactly and how does it work, how do you charge people, how do you make money?
Scott Oldford: Well, yes, basically what ended up happening is really funny. So, you know those kind of moments where you're like you just totally reject and idea without ever thinking about it? Like your world beliefs just are so strongly oriented around it where you're just like, "F that. I'm not into that." So somebody, this was April of when I moved up to Toronto, so I took some people on just to advise and that type of thing, honestly, just enough money to keep a roof over my head, and I was just trying the different business models, trying to figure out what I was going to do, also I had a podcast at the time, which was, you know the hassle that podcasts are, they're not easy, but I got connected with some cool influencers and so on and so forth. So anyways, April someone asked me, "Scott, you know a ton about online marketing." Which is true, and it just so happens I was great at marketing but I sucked at everything else, like finance, operations, everything else that it takes to build a company, I just sucked at so badly. And they were like, "Can you teach me?" And I was just like, "I'm not a teacher. I never went to university. I never went to college. And besides that, those that can't, do teach."
And that was my limiting belief. And maybe that's still true, who knows, but I'm making a lot of money doing it. But, regardless, that was a moment where I was like, "Okay, you know what? ... " And so I disregarded it, I was like, "No. I'm not going to do this." And then a weekend goes by and I'm pretty sure I tripped acid again because I do that a lot. I do LSD a lot actually. I'm a huge advocate of micro-dosing and those different types of things. And so then basically what happened, I was like, "Screw it. I'm going to see if I can get people to do this." So I wrote a two page Google document, still got it to this day, and I was basically like, "Hey, listen, I have no idea what this is going to turn into but I want to help your business with online marketing." So I asked I think it was 26 people, 22 people said yes to $1,100. I literally, this was me like messaging people I just knew on Facebook Messenger. So I made like $26- or $27,000, Canadian, at the time. And I start doing this and I was like, "Man, this is interesting."
Now, it just so happened that I was on Entrepreneur on Fire that next month, so they had recorded it two months before, and I was on Entrepreneur on Fire and the CTA was like, "Hey, listen, let's get on a 15 minute phone call." Because at the time, I wasn't guarding my time like I do today. And so I ended up like I woke up one morning, I had like 100 calls and I was like, "Oh, well, I guess that Entrepreneur on Fire thing dropped." And it was really funny because I just did another episode with John there last month and I was talking about this story. And that made me over 100 grand, that one podcast made me over 100 grand. And from there, I basically built what is this LeadCraft program, which helps an entrepreneur go through this kind of with support, so it's not just a content program because I don't believe in just content. It's like content, support, training the roadmap to being able to implement really effectively generation for business that don't have a lot of money on ads spent.
So, one of the biggest problems that I saw was majority of people are like ad to webinar and I'm like, "Okay, come on. Listen, at the end of the day, there's way too many people out there, we got five million advertisers on Facebook. We got all these different types of things against us. Our cost for clicks gone up significantly. We got all these things against us as small business owners, if you don't have hundreds of dollars a day or thousands of dollars a day to be able to spend on advertising, it's really difficult to be able to get traction." And so this just goes back to the buyer awareness. We have the sidewalk, the slow, and the fast lane. We have three different levels of awareness. And so we built ... And then this is how I essentially got the traction behind my clients at the time and myself so that instead of it being, okay, and ad going to a webinar, it's like a guide or a quiz going to a video series or a challenge or an e-book going to a webinar or a video sales letter or a sales page. So it's like a three tiered marketing funnel. That pulls people instead of pushes people.
So it was like if they don't engage with the guide, we don't bring them to the next piece, we just kind of nurture them. And if they go to the challenge and then they don't engage, then we don't push our sale on them, we pull them towards us. We illuminate instead of trying to just push them, push them, push them. So, that's essentially what ended up happening and now this has kind of created this massive following, this massive success. Not around us or me but more so around the fact that entrepreneurs do this and online marketing finally clicks for them when one of the biggest problems I see with a lot of the online marketing that's being taught, it's not about the people teaching it, it's about the fact that the people teaching it are using it with businesses that have budgets and when you try to translate online marketing from people that have budgets.
Like I spend easy six figures every single month on paid advertising, what I can od is very different than someone that can only pay 500 bucks a month or whatever it may be. So, we found some really, really great success into that and that's the market we serve are the people that have at the range of 60k to a quarter million, half a million and they want something that works and they want to be able to scale. So that's really what it is and that's the program.
Eric Siu: Cool. And how much does it cost?
Scott Oldford: So, we got a 1k, 4k, and 12k version. So basically, 1k is you get some help and some support [inaudible 00:16:45] plus the content. 4k, we actually help you a little bit, we assist you a little bit. And then the 12k, our entire team will help you write the landing pages, we'll help you write the email streams, we'll help you plan out the webinar, we'll get on zoom with you and help you put out your Facebook ads or whatever it may be. So that's the business model.
Eric Siu: Cool. So 12k's more execution?
Scott Oldford: Yeah, like we won't do it for you, we don't do it for you, but we will very much help you kind of along.
Eric Siu: Got it.
Scott Oldford: So, it's kind of like [inaudible 00:17:16], I'll never get back into the agency stuff, I'll never do that.
Eric Siu: Cool. You know what's interesting, there's a lot of people out there that sell courses for 1- or 2k or so, but when you have something out there for 12k, how does it work? Do you typically get them on the phone or you just say, "Hey, go to this landing page and buy," how does that look?
Scott Oldford: Yeah, listen, it's going to be hard to go get someone to pay $12,000 off of a landing page. If you can do that, then you're definitely amazing at sales. But, in our case, our close rate is above 80% on the phone. So we're really big on prequalification upfront. Basically, it's like you're not getting on this phone call without buying. And so I'm huge on ... I actually have a guide, I'll actually send it over to you afterwards, it kind of shows our methodology on this. So the biggest problem is here's what a majority of people do, majority of people do a webinar and then on the back of it, they'll get 20% of the people on the webinar to sign up to a strategy call and then 20% of those people will buy. I don't want a sales team. Maybe it's a limiting belief, I just don't want to manage a sales team and I don't want ... I believe in a relevancy, I have a book coming out that's called "Relevancy", I believe the fact that we have one or two chances at being able to show a relevant offer to someone and after that, they're going to look elsewhere.
We have a limited amount of attention to be able to give an offer that seems relevant. And if we do not do it at the right time and at the right place with the right message with the right price point with the right pain point, we're going to screw ourselves. And this is why a majority of people can't convert, the majority of people can only convert 2- or 3% of the leads that come in the door. And this is a problem. I'm all about let's convert as many people as possible, because remember, I had very little money to be able to make this happen, I had a $12,000 credit card from my girlfriend that I was using to spend on Facebook ads and I basically reserve engineered this entire methodology because I was like, "I either do this or I'm screwed."
So, from that point, we get people on the phone, we basically bring people through a guide, we got a couple different guides, they may go to a webinar, it depends on their engagement rate. If they have a high engagement rate, they'll go directly to a 26 minute VSL where it's going to be talking. If their engagement rate is lower, where we think we need to sell it more, they'll go to a webinar and then from there they'll basically go through a strategy form, it takes about 40 minutes to fill out. It gets manually reviewed by one of our team members. We reject as many people as we possibly can and then we get them on the phone and then from the phone call we basically say, "Hey, okay, cool, do you want to work with this?" And keep in mind, this is not something that's scaled. We don't do like 100 plus of these on a monthly basis. We want to make sure our success rate is really, really high, so even if somebody wants to do it, we want to make sure they have a real business model because we know majority of people that are at 100k, 200k, they have no business model, they're flying by the seat of their pants. And if they don't have a real offer and a real business, I don't want anything to do with them.
Eric Siu: Got it. Okay. So, it sounds like you're segmenting people down based on engagement and then the 12k, definitely, you get them on the phone, do you get them on the phone for 4k, as well?
Scott Oldford: No. No. We basically sell the 1k and then we sell that after. So you can't actually see that product, there's no webinar for that product, there's no nothing for that product.
Eric Siu: Got it.
Scott Oldford: We get them in the program, "Say, listen, if you want this, this is this. And this extra level of help. Here you go." And that's how we do that one.
Eric Siu: Cool. So it's 1k and then here's this other stuff, if you want it?
Scott Oldford: You got it. And so basically, the 4k is a good upsell and it's a good downsell from our 12k. And then we're actually [inaudible 00:20:33] right now an accelerator, which is going to be 10k for 90 days. So that's for somebody that already has a marketing funnel that's working, they just kind of really, really want to grow from there. And majority of entrepreneurs just don't know how to grow quickly. For whatever reason. And you kind of look at it, you see some people and they just like grow like wildfire and then other entrepreneurs it's like they can barely get 20% year in year growth and it's like, "Okay, why?" And so that's our job there. So it's not like a mastermind, it's more like 90 days, get in, here's the one thing you're going to do in 90 days that's going to drive significant growth in the business. So that's what our business model, that's what our business is based on, at least today.
Eric Siu: Great, yeah. Just so all the marketing nerds on this podcast, I think everyone that's listening to this podcast should add Scott as a friend on Facebook just to see ... I was telling Scott before we even got started that he's perpetually top of mind, he's always posting content on Facebook every day and it's actually good stuff, the updates that you're writing are actually really good. And the thing is, we talk about funnels and things like that, I've had other people on the show that have talked about this stuff, when I look at your stuff, it's actually really well done and it's really well thought out, so where do you go to continually get better at this stuff? Because it's so well refined.
Scott Oldford: There's four things in life that really make me happy, freedom, evolution, innovation, and creation. So, the only reason that I've gotten the momentum I've gotten is because I just do not care about failing. I fail way more than I succeed. I would say that 90% of what I do on a daily basis ... Like 90% of everything I do fail. 90% of everything I do, every campaign, anything. And I set myself up for that failure because I do things that it's kind of like, I basically set myself up for a continuation of mini failures. So I don't bet big anymore, I don't make big bets where it's like, "Okay, if this doesn't work, I'm screwed." It's why I don't like and don't enjoy launches. So, why is it refined or why is it the way that it is? It's just because I've done it so many times. It's just like you just do it. Once you do something over and over and over and over again, you don't have a choice but to get good at it. In terms of inspiration, I'll be honest with you, I don't have many marketers as friends, I try to stay away from marketers as friends, to be totally honest, because we'll just end up circle jerking each other.
For me, I look outside of my industry, I look at people that aren't famous, that aren't known, for my ideas. And maybe it's stupid, but I put my blinders on and I let my micro-dosing and my LSD and my trips into the cosmos take care of my inspiration and my creativity. And I don't know if that's unique or it is or it's not, I have no idea, but for me it's just I think a lot of people complicate marketing in ways that it doesn't need to be complicated. I think a lot of people don't think about the fact of who they're actually serving and who their customers are. I think a lot of the time, too, we just got to ... I don't care if something's working, I want it to work better, I want it to work better and better and better and I got no problem taking a webinar that's working amazingly well and just creating it from scratch and kind of going against that. So, I think it's just this adoption of the idea that iteration and innovation. Iteration is one of the same of innovation and that we can always do better and we can always do more. And the ideas that are a little bit crazy are the ones that give us a lot of the momentum.
So I think that's it, man. My program originally was called the INFINITUS Business Growth Program, like IBGP. It sounded like a fucking virus. And so it didn't have the sexy name, it didn't have the sexy graphics. The amount of times that I've talked about the SSF method probably is like 20-, 30,000 times so when I talk about it now, it's a lot easier than two and a half years ago when I was like, "Awareness level." You know what I mean? So it's like anything you do over and over and over again, you're just going to get good at it. And plus I've been doing this shit for like 17 years. If I'm not good at it this point, I'm fucked as a human being. So, that's kind of my belief. I really, truly believe it's like at least 10 years to get good at something, at least 10, 15 years.
And you look at the [inaudible 00:24:51], you look at all the people that have just like ... It feels like limitless amounts of knowledge, it's because of the fact that they've been doing this game for such a long time, which is why anyone that's starting out that's in their first two or three or four or five years is like, "Why isn't this going faster?" Or like you look at somebody else and be like, "Man, how are they so smart? Or how are they doing all these different types of things?" Man, just patience is the game of entrepreneurship. If you can just wait it out, you can just persevere and just wait it out, you'll become successful.
Eric Siu: Did anybody ever tell you that you have a great radio voice?
Scott Oldford: Yeah. They do, actually. Yeah. I've been told that like many a many a time. It's really funny because I don't like listening to myself. I remember I had a podcast for like a year and a half, which actually was a lot of fun but it was just a little bit of a time drain and there's better things I can do from an ROI perspective. And yeah, I used to get that a lot. But I would never listen to my own episodes. So one of the things I do, any time do anything, I got this kind of hack, I read this about Tony Robbins one time, and after every single time, every speech, he gets a transcript and he reads it. So I do that, almost everything I do, I always get the transcript and I basically read it back to myself, being like, "Okay, now how can I improve blah, blah, blah?" But, I'll never listen to my own voice because it's just like nails on a chalkboard. [crosstalk 00:26:12].
Eric Siu: I'm the same way. think it's a human thing. It's a human psychology thing, though.
Scott Oldford: Yeah, it is. It's probably a good thing because I might be too in love with my ... Like I got a pretty big ego and I'm way too confident as it is, so if I liked my own voice, it might actually be a scary thing and I might actually love myself a little too much.
Eric Siu: Fair enough. So, I want to dive back into the Facebook post that you're spending a lot of time writing this stuff or at least you're putting thought into it every single day, so can you talk about what you're doing there and what it's done for you?
Scott Oldford: Yeah, it's really funny because someone was interviewing me for like Inc or Fortune, or I don't know, one of those, the other day and they were like same thing like you, they were like, "Man, I read everything you post on Facebook. You do such a good job at getting engagement and everything else." I'll be honest with you, my strategy for Facebook, I could probably make seven figures a year just from my Facebook feed at this point, just my regular, personal Facebook feed. I do my personal Facebook feed not as a business thing, it's more of when I'm inspired, if I see something or I hear something or I listen to a song or I had a conversation. I'll be honest with you, my Facebook and a lot of people love this, it's kind of like for me, writing on Facebook the way I do, is a form of therapy, a form of being able to get my thoughts out. And I don't really ever post with the intention of business.
Eric Siu: Just to give people some context, what's an example of a post that you'd have out there so people can visualize it?
Scott Oldford: I don't know, I think there's one the other day that was like talking about ...
Eric Siu: Here, I'm going to open it up for you. You talk, I'll open it up.
Scott Oldford: Yeah, I don't know, there was one the other day and I was like here's my x-step plan to getting to $1 million a month in revenue by the end of the year. That was like one and there's another one that had a lot of ... It ended up a little bit controversial, I was talking about LSD, I was talking about I'm in an open relationship so I have two girlfriends and I was talking about all these things that are like a little bit stretching people's worlds view a little bit, but I might be on the toilet, I might be in bed, I might be whatever, I just write whatever's on my mind, I don't filter it, I don't reread it. I just push the post button and then anything that gets a lot of traction or I get a lot of messages or whatever, I'll send it to my team and be like, "Hey, listen, let's turn this into some real content and put it through our distribution channel."
I've got like 5,000 friends and like 4,000 followers so not that many people actually see it, like less than 10,000 people actually see that, anything that's on my Facebook versus the email list and all these different types of things. And so it's almost like a testing area for me where it's a creative outlet and a way for me to publicly kind of test ideas and concepts and that type of thing. And for whatever reason, and I have some theories but for whatever reason, Facebook puts me on the top of most people's Facebook feed.
Eric Siu: Yeah, so you're definitely on top of mine all the time and I don't know how. But so, here's one one, an example of the post, eight hours ago you wrote something about the [inaudible 00:29:15] the next four years, how internet marketing, e-learning, trending, whatever will evolve and I just highlighted it, it's 1,300 words, it's basically a blog post. And then your engagement is insane on it, too, it's what, 42 people like it, a ton more people, or maybe not more but a lot of people are commenting on it, as well.
Scott Oldford: I actually got two clients from that post so far today.
Eric Siu: Wow.
Scott Oldford: Yeah. And it's really interesting because Facebook, the way that they're doing the likes and comments now, they've changed the algorithm in the last seven days, which is a conversation for a full other time, and they're basically they're changing it so they're actually getting people to comment versus like and they're actually giving people different content based on getting them to comment because if they comment, the time on the site will be higher and the number of ads they can show is higher. Because right now, they're blocked, like they have no more ad space. So now they're actually tinkering with the algorithm and utilizing artificial intelligence to know who's going to engage with what so they can stay on the site. And now, this used to be an ads only but now it's in the actual Facebook feed. So you'll actually see ... And this is another thing, almost all my money is made from my lurkers not the people that actually engage, almost all my money. So, I'll have people contact me being like, "Man, dude, that post changed my life." Or, "Dude, this is like wow. I want you to help me, blah, blah, blah."
And it's really interesting because I do six figures plus a month in kind of one-on-one work with people and every single one, I don't have any funnel for that, there's no funnel online, there's no sales page, there's no nothing, every single dollar I make of that has come through my personal Facebook page. And it's just simply because of the fact of whatever I post on there.
Eric Siu: Love it. Cool, man. Well, I want to dive into some other stuff. We can talk about [inaudible 00:31:04] on this stuff all day but I think there's one more thing to nerd out on and it's bots and that's something you've been talking about quite a bit, so you want to jump into it?
Scott Oldford: Yeah, man.
Eric Siu: Great. So, what's working around bots, what are bots, what are you doing right now?
Scott Oldford: Well, here's the really kind of interesting thing when it comes to bots and these different type ... Initially, I thought bots were going to be a little bit of a fad, a little bit of a trend, that type of thing, you know how it is, like everyone loves jumping on the next bandwagon, everyone's like, "Oh, well, this is the coolest thing since sliced bread." And I try to focus as much as possible, not try to just ride waves every day. And so this just kind of kept coming up and so then back in March, I was like, "You know what?" So, [inaudible 00:31:48], which is my girlfriend but she's also my business partner, so I was like, "You know what? Do you want to be a CEO of a new company?" And I was like, "I got this idea and I think this bots thing is going to have a bigger ... I think this is big. I think bots are going to replace websites, I think bots are going to replace a lot of what we see in day-to-day life." And today they're very simple but they will evolve.
So we ended up starting that, we started in mid-March, so March, April, May, June, so we were four months into it, honestly off the top of my head I don't know how much revenue. We've probably almost done half a million in four months, just selling training and done free bots. And so that business has been really, really interesting but what's more interesting is the customers and the clients we have in terms of doing these bots. I've never seen engagement like this ever. I didn't get to enjoy the days of one cent clicks on Google and 80% open rates on emails and all the good days, I was too young for that shit. So, I'm [inaudible 00:32:50] enjoy that stuff and we had one webinar where we used a bot to qualify people at the end of it, we had 1,100 leads and we closed $400,000 in booked revenue. Now, keep in mind, booked, not earned, so booked revenue means that we'll make that revenue over the next 12 calendar months. So just making that difference because most people don't say that and you're like, "Oh, my God, you just made 400 grand." I was like, "No, we need to earn that." So that's one way we did it.
Eric Siu: What kind of engagement rates are you seeing right now? Or I guess you're just about to [inaudible 00:33:17]-
Scott Oldford: 80-, yeah, 90% open rates, 30-, 40-, 50% click rates. Honestly, I've never seen anything like it. And people are actually buying from it, people are actually buying, like that's a cool thing. Like we did a messenger blast, like a messenger sequence, a natural language sequence, for our course before we even did it, so we sent it in on a Friday and I think it was almost $20,000 we made in 24 hours. It didn't even have a sales page, it literally was just a buy now button for like $397, or $497, and that was one of those moments where I was like, "Wow. This is huge." Because I had a theory that it was a great engagement platform but there's no way we're going to be able to get people to buy. And right now, I get more people to sign up to my webinars than I do via email, via my messenger bots. Keep in mind, my messenger bot list is like less than 5k, our email list is like 40-, 50k and we get more people to sign up to our webinars via the messenger bot than email.
Eric Siu: And you just blast them whenever the webinar's happening?
Scott Oldford: Yeah, we do a lot of segmenting and that type of thing inside of that so we don't send it out to everybody, we look at engagement, we look at what they actually post. One of the things you can't do with these messenger bots is use it like email, so the way that I always do it is I'll send a note being like, "Hey, next week we're doing a webinar about webinars," and be like, "Hey, do you use webinars or do you want to use webinars in your business?" And it'd be like, "Yes," or "No." They'd be like, "Yes." "Awesome. Sweet. Well, I've done over 300 webinars in the past two years and we've generates millions of dollars in revenue and we're going to be doing a new live training on Thursday, are you available at that time?" And if they say, "Yes," then we put them into it, if they say, "No," it'll be like, "Well, listen, you can register, I just want to let you know that we're going to have a replay so if you can't make it there, if you let me know, I'll send you the replay once it happens." And then they say, "Yes," I'm like, "Sweet."
So then I tag them as so and if they say, "Yes," you say, "Awesome, cool. Well, listen, I have you registered," so they don't even have to register, it's literally just boom, cool, so I've tagged them. It's like, "Awesome," and then what I'll do is I'll do a little quick, one minute video being like explaining what's going to be there and why they need to be there live. Now, here's what's cool, of the people that, show up rate's typical, they're like really low right now, especially by email, about 10- to 15% right now, down way more than they were a year or two ago, and we've seen show up rates as far as 60-, 70% of the people that engage utilizing the messenger bot versus email.
Eric Siu: Wow.
Scott Oldford: Yeah, just huge. And that's a lot of dollars and cents and then of course the beautiful things is is then I can engage with them and I can follow up with them after so I can go back and be like, "Hey, were you on the webinar today?" And they can say< "Yes," or, "No," and if they say, "Yes," "Awesome, sweet. Well, as you know we introduce this or we did that or whatever and so for the next few days, so if you have any questions, just push the reply button and let me know." And then I can followup, I can do a quick video and be like, "Hey, it's me, here, blah, blah, blah." And so it's a really cool way to engage with people where you can use audio and video and all these different types of things. And people love it, people love the experience of it. Our unsubscribe rate is just as low as email, which is amazing because you would think that kind of interrupting them would be really, really obtrusive. And I guarantee you, I've seen some marketers just totally screw up, they're just utilizing it like email and I don't understand why they're doing it. I really hope they stop it because they're going to burn people. But if you use it properly, you could be ultra relevant to somebody and you can collect a lot of cool information about someone.
Eric Siu: Basically making a conversation.
Scott Oldford: You got it, man. People love conversations. People love the fact that it's almost instantaneous replies. I got a couple of my support team members on there and, man, it's amazing. It really ... I'm not advocating that email's gone away, I collect an email address as well as the messenger bot, so typically how I get people to sign up, I basically use the messenger bot as an upgrade, content upgrade. So, it's like, "Hey, cool. Awesome. You just got our guide. If you want this other thing that's really going to help you, you can get it via Messenger." So it's kind of like-
Eric Siu: That's smart.
Scott Oldford: Yeah, because I want the highest engaged people, not the lowest engaged people, and I want three things, I want the email, I want the pixel, and I want the messenger bot. Because with the pixel, I know exactly who they are and I can engage them and retarget them, with the email address I can get 20-, 30% open rates, and then with the messenger bot I can engage them and properly be in front of them consistently.
Eric Siu: Love it. Awesome. We can go on all day but we have to work towards wrapping up, just got a couple more questions for you. So, you talked about micro-dosing, can you kind of describe what that is and how you got started doing it?
Scott Oldford: I'll be honest with you, I started utilizing ... LSD changed my life, I'm a huge advocate of it. So January 2015, maybe? Yeah, 2015 ... yeah, 2015. And I was actually at a sex club in Toronto, it was definitely not one of those situations where it was like, "Okay, I'm going to do this for business." But it evolved into that very quickly and I ended up doing LSD almost two to three times a month and then it kind of got to a point and I started micro-dosing [inaudible 00:38:22] some friends of mine that also do this and kind of the benefits in micro-dosing on a day-to-day basis. I haven't micro-dosed for two weeks, actually, right now, but typically I do it like two or three times a week, so I do it for creativity, I do it for writing time and strategy mode, or if I do a day of back-to-back interviews and that type of thing, like today I haven't really done interviews and that type of thing, I haven't really been feeling like I needed it.
But, the beautiful thing about micro-dosing is you don't have any ... Listen, we all have filters, at some level I'm going to filter anything. People are always like, "Oh, I'm going to be authentic," or, "I'm going to be whatever," it's like, listen, at the end of the day, we all have filters. The beautiful thing about LSD is it kills the filter. And I've profited greatly from just being who I am and I was miserable when I wasn't who I was. Not that many years ago, I was trying to be somebody. And now it's like, I'm being myself. And LSD helped me through that. LSD helped me with creativity, LSD helped me with inspiration, LSD helped me, honestly, take the filtering and take all the things that were crappy about me, all the things that just were not good from a character perspective and it allowed me to evolve to the human being that I am today and very much changed my life around.
And just kind of see this world as a beautiful place and a wonderful place and a place that I want to be able to help make better versus just kind of waking up in the morning and being like, "Oh, what's in it for me? How do I make money?" So, it was a really interesting experience for me and that's my personal journey and I don't think it's for everybody but if you're somebody that wants to grow quickly and affectively and you really kind of what to supercharge your life and you don't want the normal, then I think it's a great potential path.
Eric Siu: What's a micro-dose look like in relation to a regular dose? What's the difference?
Scott Oldford: It's like a sliver ... If you were to like do a tab of acid, it would be like 1/10th of it.
Eric Siu: Oh, got it, okay. Cool.
Scott Oldford: Yeah, so it's super small. And every once in a while, because I don't do drops, if you do it properly, you would do a drop, but I'm not that advanced, and so every once in a while I'll take the scissors out, because that's how I basically do it, and just cut up a regular one. And every once in a while, you'll just kind of cut it a little too thick and [inaudible 00:40:43] time you're just like, "Screw it. Fuck it. Whatever." And there's been definitely a couple of times where it's like three or four hours later be like, "I think I took a little too much. I think today's going to be a super extra creative day." But it's all fun and games. Here's the beautiful thing, most people ... Out of everything in my life that I'm proud of, there's not very much that I kind of pat myself on the back, I'm not one of those people that are like, "Oh, I'm going to celebrate because I have a big vision, I have big goals in my life." But, the most thing I'm proud of is the fact that I've been able to build a successful company while being exactly who I am and talking exactly who I am and not covering things up or trying to be like, "Oh, well, that's not going to resonate with my people," or whatever it might be.
And I think, honestly, that's what I'm most proud of is I can be exactly who I am, work with exactly who I want to, and there's a lot of people that don't like me, there's a lot of people don't agree with my worldviews, and all these different types ... A lot of people that are like, "Scott, you're polarizing." But, the more that I am myself, the more money I make, even though I'm not trying to even make more money. And it's a really cool place where it's like you really, truly know you're at true north when you're at that point.
Eric Siu: Love it. Yeah, screw what everyone else thinks, right? I think there's a good thing about polarizing, you either love them or you hate them, so I'm one of your big fans, so you know you have me supporting you.
Scott Oldford: Thanks, man. [crosstalk 00:42:06].
Eric Siu: Yeah.
Scott Oldford: Yeah, it's a weird thing because nobody wants to be hated. I was a fat kid that used to be picked on when I was a kid and so this kind of whole new world of having people that actually hate you and it happens at a certain point where even people you respect start hating you. And yeah, it's difficult to kind of work through at first but then it's like, you know what, at the end of the day, I'm going to serve who resonates with me. If people like me, I'm fucked, because you either need to love me or you need to hate me, anywhere in between you're just kind of mediocre.
Eric Siu: True. All right, man, two more questions. So, what's one new tool that you've added in the last year that's added a lot of value? So, I'm going to take the bot away so you can't use ManyChat or you can't use [inaudible 00:42:50].
Scott Oldford: Yeah, no, for sure, man. Honestly, I'll use this, a piece of paper and this is new, really new, and I plan my days and [inaudible 00:43:03] I want four things in my life, freedom, evolution, innovation, and creation. And I plan my days so I have almost equal amount of to-dos or tasks or things to do of all those four things because if I do that, I have the most fulfilling, happiest, most just amazing days. I get at the end of the day and I could almost cry about how amazing that day was. And I think we all have those four things and I think they're all different and for me, ever since I started doing this, it's been life changing. I've gotten way more done and I'm at the end of the day and I'm so excited about the day, I'm so excited about life, and I think it's about balancing those things that are important to you because if you balance them properly, you don't care about the money, you just love waking up in the morning just to do what you're meant to do.
And the beautiful thing is, if you have all those four things, I think we all have different purposes at different times in life and if you're listening to this, maybe you're not doing what it is you exactly love in life, but I guarantee you if you do those four things and you kind of think about your life with those four things and make your decisions with those four things, you can have a job you even hate and if you do it in this way, I can't guarantee you you'll love it, but you'll love it a heck of a lot more and true north will find itself. So, that's a tool, old school, old school technology, but that's been life changing to me, man.
Eric Siu: Love that. What are the four again?
Scott Oldford: For me it's innovation, evolution, freedom, and ... Gee whiz. Hold on, let me get my piece of paper. Freedom, creation, innovation, evolution.
Eric Siu: Love it, those sound like core values, too.
Scott Oldford: Yeah, dude. Yeah, they're definitely my core values. Is this kind of like if I don't do ... I do like these little masterminds and that type of thing and if I don't do them every six or eight weeks, just bring people around me and that sort of thing, I start getting depressed because this online world really sucks from a perspective of being in a room with people you get and they get you.
Eric Siu: Totally. So, final question, what's one must read book you'd recommend to everyone?
Scott Oldford: Dude, I'm the wrong person to talk about ... I don't really read.
Eric Siu: Go with a podcast, go with the blog that you like.
Scott Oldford: But, but, I'll give you two books that changed my life. I've probably only read four but, first one "The Freaks Shall Inherit the Earth" by Chris Brogan, my good friend Chris. That book changed my life. That book was the beginning of me falling in love with who I truly was versus what I tried to be. The second book by M. J. DeMarco, "The Millionaire Fastlane". And I don't know how many times I read that book when I was broke but, of course, the sidewalk, slow, and fast lane, I borrowed that for the SSF method that I talk about sidewalk, slow, and fast lane for lead generation. He talks about it from a financial perspective, so almost completely, entirely unrelated but that book was very, very life changing for me. So, two of those books, by far, the best books that from a level of changing my life at the right time.
Eric Siu: Great. Love it, man. Well, Scott, this has been incredible. You can see we've talked for what 50 minutes here already, but what's the best way for people to find you online?
Scott Oldford: Google me or Facebook me or whatever may be. I'll start retargeting you and all those types of things. I kind of joke, I'm kind of like, as soon as you start getting in my world, I'm kind of like Herpes, you can't get rid of me. So, but thankfully, not the painful kind, the kind that makes you lots of money. So, with that said, if you're listening to this, I appreciate you listening to this for the 50 minutes that you've been here and with that, wherever you're [inaudible 00:46:33] or whatever you're doing, I think one of the best pieces ... If someone could've gave this to me 15 years ago, entrepreneurship and success comes down to having patience, determination, and just being obsessed with the process versus the result. And so whoever you are that you're listening to this, remember that because if you remember that, success takes a lot less time than if you kind of are just obsessed about the result. And Eric, thank you so much for having me on here. I'm looking forward to getting to know you more, man.
Eric Siu: Yeah. Thanks for being here.
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